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The Senior Dogs Project "Blessed is the person who has earned the love of an old dog." |
1998 & Earlier
The FDA's October 1998 report notes a 1997 tally of 195 deaths in which Rimadyl was suspected. Some, but not all, of the case histories below are counted in the FDA report.
To report an ADE to Pfizer, call: 1-800-366-5288. ADE's should also always be reported to the FDA at: 1-888-332-8387 (or 1-888-FDA-VETS).
Death #50:
Collie Dies of Liver Toxicity; No Baseline Tests Done
Breed: Collie (male, "Logan")
Age: 7-8 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis pain
Dog's weight and dosage taken: 78 lbs./100 mgs. 2X day
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 weeks
Symptoms: Loss of appetite, vomiting, excessive panting
Date of death: 12/28/98
Vet informed about side effects?: Vet who prescribed Rimadyl said there were few -to-no known side effects
Owner's Remarks: "Logan went off his feed Friday evening. Saturday evening, he still refused to eat, and later began vomiting. He died sometime during the night on Monday. Our vet (NOT the one who prescribed Rimadyl) is very hesitant to identify Rimadyl as the culprit, but took my suspicions seriously enough (Logan died of liver toxicity) to call a staff meeting and begin doing preliminary blood work before prescribing the drug in the future. For that I am quite thankful. I suspect that Logan may have already had some type of liver irregularity or disease prior to taking the drug, which predisposed him to the reaction he had, but I can't help but wonder if some preliminary blood work would have revealed that. We lost a very-much-loved family friend. Just wish I'd have done more homework before putting him on it."
mmkarner@iolok.com
Death #49:
Sudden, Painful Death of 11-Year-Old Schnauzer
Breed: Schnauzer (male, "Spencer")
Age: 11 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis in rear legs
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 11 months
Symptoms: loss of appetite, vomiting blood, lethargy, depression, weakness
Date of death: 12/30/98
Vet informed about side effects?: Somewhat, but did not explain the seriousness of them; did preliminary blood work, but did not continue to monitor throughout course of treatment.
Owner's Remarks: "Even though my vet is noncommittal, I feel certain that the use of Rimadyl is what caused the death of my beloved Spencer. . . .The onset of his symptoms was simply horrible -- he became so lethargic, he would not touch food or water -- and then he vomited blood. The vet tried to overcome the kidney damage that the Rimadyl had done and just could not do it. . . . If I could spare one person the pain that I have gone through, please take this advice: GET YOUR DOG OFF OF THIS DRUG! My dog was healthy, happy, fun-loving, and wonderful to be with.. . . Please -- take care of your pets! Don't let this happen to you!"
burress@in-motion.net
Death #48:
Rottweiler Dies after Vet Increases Rimadyl Dosage Despite Signs of Toxicity
Breed: Rottweiler (female, "Isis")
Age: 10 1/2 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: limp, possible osteosarcoma
Dog's weight and dosage taken: 99 lbs, 100mg 1-2 pills twice a day
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2-4 weeks
Symptoms: vomiting, diarrhea, jaundice, urinating in house, blood in urine, anemia-severe, stopped eating, weak-not able to walk
Date of death: 6 weeks after initial dose, 1/2/99
Did vet seem informed & inform you about side effects? He said there were some rare side effects but did not tell me what to watch for -- he said mainly gastrointestinal upsets
Owner's Remarks: "If I had known about these side effects or the vet had told me what to watch for, I would have opted for a different pain reliever. I know that Rimadyl killed my dog prematurely. She was feeling fine and eating well before I gave her those pills. After she showed symptoms, the vet never thought they might be related to Rimadyl and, in fact, told me to increase her dosage. I trusted him completely. I will never do that again, and I will never give Rimadyl to any of my other dogs. My dog suffered a great deal and so did I and my family. We want the drug company to make sure each person using this drug for their dog knows all risks and side effects involved. A pamphlet should accompany each prescription so consumers can make a more informed choice. I still blame myself for giving her those pills and making her so sick."
linn@halcyon.com
Death #47:
"100% Healthy" Cocker Spaniel Dies of Liver Failure
Breed: Cocker Spaniel (male, "Pete")
Age: 8 1/2 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis in the middle spine and hip
Dog's weight and dosage taken: 34lbs/ 37.5mg 2xs day
When reaction occurred following initial dose: second day; but administration of drug continued intermittently despite appearance of side effects
Symptoms: vomiting, diarrhea, etc. (see Owner's Remarks below)
Date of death: 11/3/98
Did vet seem informed & inform you about side effects? The only side effects mentioned by vet were vomiting and diarrhea.Vet instructed owner to administer Rimadyl with Tagament, Pepto, Kaopectate
Owner's Remarks: "Pete was on Rimadyl for two weeks in December 1997; it was then given intermittently until May 1998. In May, he was placed on Rimadyl daily with Tagament given at each dose a.m. and p.m. Since he had vomiting and diarrhea, I was told to use Pepto or Kaopectate. His other symptoms: fatigue, urination in the house but refusal to go when outside), depression (we thought because in 9/98 his mate came down with Bell's Palsy), eating less and drinking less (didn't want to take his favorite treats). These symptoms came on slowly and we noted them but were very involved in the care of our other Cocker Spaniel. Fluid build up had started (9/98) and his eating and drinking stopped the weekend before we had to put him to sleep due to cirrhosis of the liver. We took him in to the vet on Monday because of the severity of his symptoms. They suspected liver problems (found a heart murmur) and did a complete blood work up. Tuesday morning he stopped breathing; I did CPR and he did start breathing again. But when we rushed him to the vet, he told us that his liver enzymes were way off and his protein level was almost non-existent. X-rays and sonargram done. Vet told us he was dying and there was nothing we could do but put him to sleep to take him out of his pain. This dog was 100% healthy except for some arthritis prior to going on Rimadyl. Pete was our boy of the family and Rimadyl took his life. Even though we have three other Cocker Spaniels, we still cry for Pete and his senseless death. He will never be forgotten. Perhaps this report of our experience will help some other dogs to avoid Pete's fate."
Meanst@uswestnet.com
Death #46:
Dog Dies 9 Months after Experiencing
Complications from Rimadyl Reaction
Breed: English Setter (female, "Meggin")
Age: 6 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: lameness
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 10 days
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; yellow eyes and gums; elevated liver enzymes
Date of episode: May 1998
Date of death: January 1999
Vet informed about side effects: NO
Owner's Remarks: "Meggin became a diabetic due to pancreatitis brought on by liver failure due to Rimadyl. This in itself is a 'life sentence.' So although she survived Rimadyl, she had to bear (as did I) the daily monitoring, injections, etc., that go along with diabetes. I was so GRATEFUL she was still with me-- but it was not without its high price."
Update 7/29/98: Dog dianosed with cancerous tumor; surgery extremely hazardous due to liver damage caused by Rimadyl
Update 1/30/99: "It is with a heavy heart that I write to tell you that my sweet girl Meggin has gone to the Rainbow Bridge today. Her suffering and pain are no more. I know she will be greeted by so many beloved friends there. My heart is broken, but I know it was the final loving gift I could bestow upon her."
Kimmie651@aol.com
Death #45:
4-Year-Old Irish Wolfhound Dies After Only 4-5 Doses of Rimadyl
Breed: Irish Wolfhound (female, "Ellie")
Age: 4 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: Right front elbow had degenerative arthritis in it. It was not a big problem and had been treated with 1/2 tablet of Aleve for pain with good results. On January 8, the dog suddenly began crying with pain and would not put weight on her right leg.
Dog's weight and dosage taken: 126lbs. - 125 mg twice daily
When reaction occurred following initial dose: On January 9, 1999; one day after initial dose
Symptoms: lethargy, swelling in elbow area, loss of appetite, rapid eye movement, dementia, not responsive, vomiting, heavy panting
Date of episode: January 8 - 18, 1999
Date of death: January 18, 1999
Did vet seem informed & inform you about side effects? "All I was told was to look for vomiting, told that few dogs have a bad reaction. I had picked up a pamphlet on Rimadyl earlier last year because the vet had suggested using it for her arthritis problem. I was not sure I wanted to start her on it because I had heard it could cause kidney problems. I really never read it before this incident."
Owner's Remarks: "The day the dog was taken in for the initial problem the vet administered an injection of Prednisolone Acetate 40mg IM and sent me home with 125mg of Rimadyl, which I was told to start immediately. The dog slept all day January 8 and started showing bad symptoms on January 9. The vet recommended stopping the Rimadyl on January 10 and to bring her in first thing on the 11th. He observed her all day January 11th and on the 12th told me to get her to the Veterinary Specialty Clinic. They examined the dog, read the x-rays, and sent me home with my dog and told me to again give Rimadyl but 3x's daily now. Never really commented on the dog's other symptoms. By the next day, the dog was throwing up, refused to eat and only received 2 doses of the Rimadyl. The vet at the Specialty Clinic said as long a dog was drinking water he wasn't concerned with her inappetence. Now I started finding blood coming from her nose or mouth. I rushed her into the emergency room at the Specialty Clinic. The next 5 days were hell. She progressively got worse. She was then diagnosed with acute renal and liver failure. Every possible measure was taken to turn things around. On Monday, January 18t, the vet said her creatine levels were at 12 and she was really struggling. My decision was made to let her go. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do."
tuxfalco@ameritech.net /Darlene Falco
Death #44:
Liver Failure Caused Death in 7-Year-Old
Breed: Not specified (male, "Mr. Max")
Age: 7 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: not specified
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3 to 8 months
Symptoms: Loss of appetite
Date of death: December 1998
Vet informed about side effects: No
Owner's Remarks: "My dog (Mr. Max) was on Rimadyl for 8 months. After 3 months passed, his appetite dropped. Our vet said he had hypothyroidism. This past Monday, after several previous visits to his vet and a weight drop of 10 pounds, I had another vet check him. He was having liver failure at 7 years old! Cause: Rimadyl. Had I known this was a possibility, I would have NEVER given him this medication. I am so hurt and angry at the vet and the makers of this drug. ... I foolishly trusted the vet. Never again."
12/20/98
Death #43:
Breed: Doberman/Lab Mix (female, "Pee Wee")
Age: 14 years 3 months
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia, arthritis, spine problems
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3 months
Symptoms: Loss of appetite, excessive panting, inappetance, loss of balance, hot spots, urination in the house, excessive urination
Date of reaction/death: November 1998; April 5, 1999
Vet informed about side effects: No
Owner's Remarks: "Thanks to the advice of a friend I went on a 'net search for Rimadyl. I had my suspicions about the drug and possible negative effects, but my vet chalked up my dog's symtoms to 'old age syndrome' and 'just a little of irritation from it.' "
roxc@roxaneinc.com
Death #42:
Pfizer Sees "Two a Month" of this Type of Reaction
Breed: Greyhound (female, "Eliza Jane")
Age: 9 years 9 months
Reason for Rimadyl rx: suspected pinched nerve
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 5 weeks
Symptoms: bruising, blood in ear, vomiting and urinating blood (progressive over 5 days)
Date of death: November 9, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: Vet is as informed as possible--told me about possible liver problems, initial blood work done
Owner's Remarks: "Necropsy results in short: no bone cancer; hemolytic anemia (drug induced cannot be ruled out). One vet at Pfizer said she sees two of these a month. How many more go unreported? It seemed to be no big deal to her. Two a month is small compared to how many dogs take this medication is what I was told. Well, it is a big deal to me. I am dismayed by the lack of concern of vets who attribute deaths and reactions to old age, or simply tell their distraught clients that tests to prove Rimadyl was the cause are too expensive. If I was in their place, I would pay for the tests. As a health care provider, I would want to know if a drug I was prescribing did have these kinds of side effects. I have heard from the vets that updates they receive from Pfizer down play side effects. I think Pfizer needs to be responsible in drug information to
the vets, and provide printed material for the vets to give to owners of dogs receiving this drug."
Burpdog@email.msn.com
Death #41:
Owner Told "No Side Effects"
Breed: English Springer Spaniel (female, Libby)
Age: 12 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis in rear legs
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 weeks
Symptoms: loss of appetite, seizure
Date of death: December 12, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: Vet said only side effects were gastrointestinal; said there were no other side effects to watch for
Owner's Remarks: "She had a checkup prior to beginning the drug and was in good health. At the beginning of the third week on the drug, she lost her appetite. We suspected that Rimadyl was to blame and stopped giving it to her. We started the drug again the following week. On the third day, she refused a treat and began shaking like she was having a seizure. She died on the way to the emergency room. The vet said that he was aware of the toxicity in some dogs but did not tell me since she tolerated the initial dose well. He felt it was a decision that should be weighed: mobility versus possible serious side effects, but he did not inform us and allow us to make the decision. If we had the information we now have, we never would have let our dog take this drug. I believe this drug and the irresponsible way it was prescribed and monitored killed an otherwise healthy dog. The vet said that tests to prove whether Rimadyl actually was responsible for her death would be very expensive. "
haneylinda@aol.com
Death #40:
Rapid, Frightening Decline and Death of 10-year-old Chow/ Collie
Breed: Chow/Collie Mix (female, "Tai")
Age: 10 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis flare-up
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 10 weeks
Symptoms: liver and kidney failure
Date of death: December 6, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: yes; vet has discussed case with Pfizer and has reported it as an adverse drug experience
Owner's Remarks: "Tai had perfectly normal lab work in October 1998, as part of her geriatric physical exam. She had a rapid and frightening decline to total liver and kidney failure, which the vet thinks is related to Rimadyl. He has assured me that there was nothing I could have done differently, but it doesn't bring her back or soothe the guilt I feel."
Coordinator's Note: Of special interest in this report -- The owner is a Registered Nurse specializing in Emergency/ Trauma care, and, based on her background, felt she would be alert to any serious side effects or complications....and that "nothing could get by" her. The dog's decline was too rapid, however.
3/12/99 Update on Report of Death #40:
Necropsy Confirms Rimadyl Toxicity as Cause of Death: "I submitted our story immediately after our dog Tai's death, before receiving confirmation that the changes seen in Tai's liver and kidney specimens were consistent with an adverse reaction to a drug such as Rimadyl or acetaminophen. Since she had not taken acetaminophen, Rimadyl was the only possible cause. My vet has further discussed her case with Pfizer and submitted the entire case report for their review. I have spoken with the FDA myself to insure that they are aware of yet another adverse reaction to Rimadyl. While I am still so heartbroken at the needless loss of this sweet little girl, I must admit that we were lulled into a false sense of security with the drug. Nikko, Tai's sister (littermate), had been on Rimadyl at a higher dosage for 18 months prior to Tai's initial dose. Nikko had no adverse reaction, but was taken off the drug immediately when Tai became ill. We have chosen to try the new Adequan therapy and other non-drug methods to keep her comfortable and active. As noted in the report, I am a nurse, and I am not out to take Pfizer down. Rimadyl has made a significant positive difference in the quality of life in so many dogs. Our experience, however horrible, however agonizing, was indeed an 'adverse event,' in the true scientific use of the term. I can only hope that the experiences that are listed on this website will serve to further educate the public, and bring about better medication and/or options for canine arthritis. My vet has told me that every time he counsels a client on the use of Rimadyl, he can't help but picture Tai in his mind, making him stress vigorously the potential risks along with the benefits. He realizes this is small comfort, but it is also a small positive outcome from a tragic event. Tai will always be in our hearts and will forever reside in our memories."
DBANNER@SJMC.ORG
Death #39:
Breed: Alaskan Malamute (female, "Panda")
Age: 12 years 2 months
Reason for Rimadyl rx: severe arthritis in rear legs
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3 weeks
Symptoms: inappetance, refusal to drink, sweet-smellling urine, lethargy, restlessness, partial paralysis
Date of death: November 28, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: Somewhat; we brought the symptoms to his attention and discussed them. He was aware that she might have reactions but felt that her arthritis was so bad to begin with that it was inevitable that we would have to put her to sleep.
Owner's Remarks: "After Panda started on Rimadyl, she seemed to get a little better for a week or so, then got worse. The last few days (3 weeks after beginning the drug), she literally couldn't get up or move and suffered from the symptoms described above. I am positive these were adverse reactions to Rimadyl. It isn't clear exactly how much Rimadyl contributed to her death."
Galacktus@aol.com
Death #38:
Breed: White German Shepherd/Husky ( female, "Princess")
Age: 13.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: stiffness
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 months
Symptoms: inappetance, disorientation, weakness; kidney failure, ulcerated stomach
Date of death: June 18, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner
Owner's Remarks: "Princess was 13 1/2 years old but extremely healthy (before taking Rimadyl). I honestly feel that Rimadyl was the leading cause of my girl's death."
tsucalam@ms.com
Death #37:
Breed: German Shepherd Dog/Wolf mix ( female, "Liebchien")
Age: 9 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 4 months
Symptoms: jaundice, inappetance, vomiting
Date of death: July 17, 1997
Vet informed about side effects: Rimadyl was new on the market; vet did not know of any side effects
Owner's Remarks: "The medicine ended up destroying her liver. Her white count was up to 80-90,000 -- about 10 times higher than it should have been. The only hope we had for her was to give her a blood transfusion. It went successfully, but within a day she had a stroke. I was up with her the whole night and the next morning took her to the vet. The vet told us that there was nothing we could do for her. She was already paralyzed from the neck down. She could not urinate, was totally blind in one eye, and was going blind in the other. We put her down so she wouldn't be in so much pain. "
hugnpaws@webtv.net
Death #36:
Rimadyl Side Effects In a Young Dog Go Undiagnosed by Vets for 7 Months
Breed: English Bulldog (female, "Wilma")
Age: 5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: bilateral instability in knees, limping, requiring artheroscopic knee surgery in January 1998; casts taken off and dog walked in March 1998
When reaction occurred following initial dose: within one week
Symptoms: mini-seizures, twitching in sleep, listlessness, behavioral changes, inappetance, no interest in favorite food/treats, dragging feet to point of bleeding, vomiting, chronic diarrhea (for over 4 months), weight loss, restlessness, stumbling, loss of muscle mass, vaginal discharge
Date of death: July 23, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner about any side effects
Owner's Remarks: "I have written because I want pet owners to know that a reaction to Rimadyl can occur in YOUNG DOGS as well as older dogs. Wilma was a young, healthy dog, as established by a complete physical exam given just weeks before taking Rimadyl. Within 8 days of the original dosage, symptoms began and did not stop until her death 7 months later. I believe the dosage she was on -- 100 mg -- was too high to begin with (she weighed 47 pounds). I took Wilma to eight different vets; none ever suspected Rimadyl. When I finally found a wonderful vet who ran an array of tests, it was too late. Wilma had advanced liver dysfunction and quickly withered away. If I had only known the side effects to look for, I might have been able to save her life. I firmly believe that Rimadyl killed my dog, but, since her remains are in an urn, there is no proof. TOTAL COST of pet care since on Rimadyl: just under ten thousand dollars. PLEASE NOTE: Reaction to Rimadyl can happen to younger pets, too -- and it can happen quickly. "
Otlynne@aol.com
Death #35:
Breed: Pembroke Welsh Corgi (male, "Dewey")
Age: 3 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: limp, front leg
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 8 weeks
Symptoms: loss of appetite, incontinence, seizure, hemorrhage
Date of death: August 1997
Vet informed about side effects: NO
Owner's Remarks: "Dewey was euthanized due to liver hemorrhage. He was only three and the adored pet of two small children."
hugnpaws@webtv.net
Death #34:
(Coordinator's Note: It is particularly important to note here that, while Rimadyl toxicity is supposedly rare, two dogs in one family experienced identical reactions to the drug. One died and the other is permanently disabled.)
Breed: Not specified (male, "Beau")
Age: senior
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis pain
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 7 months
Symptoms: staggering, falling, eyes twitching
Date of death: March 1998
Vet informed about side effects: NO! Definitely NOT!
Owner's Remarks: "I had tragic results using Rimadyl on two of my dogs. Beau began taking Rimadyl in February or March of 1997. He was doing well on other pain medication, but the vet thought Rimadyl offered the possibility of Beau's achieving a return to a more active life. One night in September 1997, he woke me, crying out in pain. By the next morning, he was staggering and falling. I had never seen anything like it. When I got him to the vet, she was perplexed. Beau's eyes were twitching rapidly. She said it could be anyone of several problems. After a few days, his staggering was not quite as severe, but from that first night until the day he had to be put to sleep in March of this year, he had to be carried outside. Because my vet did not know about the incidence of these symptoms related to Rimadyl, Beau was not taken off the drug until November, by which time he was so weak he was taken off all medication." (Coordinator's Note: See Case #1 below about this owner's other dog, "Rudy." troost@webtv.net
Death #33:
Breed: Chocolate Lab (male, "Buck")
Age: 13 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: severe arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 1 year, 8 months
Symptoms: vomiting, depression, loss of appetite, lethargy, loss of balance
Date of death: September 29, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: only after first blood work done, 6 months ago
Owner's Remarks: "Buck had a long up and down battle with arthritis. Approximately three weeks ago, I started giving him 2 doses of 75 mg Rimadyl tabs a day, three days a week, at the recommendation of his vet. He began to show all the symptoms listed above. I took him in to see the vet. . . . He was put on an IV for about 20 hours. Complete kidney failure was diagnosed. Yesterday, I signed the form and said good-bye to my best friend. Now I sit here, after two hours of gathering information, wondering if this drug may have caused his death. I believe this drug did help relieve the pain and discomfort, but at what cost? . . . A part of me is gone...I miss Buck very much."
WGould1007@aol.com
Death #32:
Formerly Case #32
Breed: Not specified (female, "Gip")
Age: 12 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: spinal problems, dysplasia, arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 weeks
Symptoms: suspected stroke
Date of death: September 1998
Vet informed about side effects: yes; did blood work
Owner's Remarks: "I took Gip off the Rimadyl after about 6 weeks because there seemed to be something wrong. It seemed as though she had had a stroke. She went blind in one eye. . . . I don't know if the Rimadyl did this to her, but I have to report this so others can be warned . . . If I had to do it all over again with the information I now have, I would never have given her Rimadyl. They don't know enough about it. I miss my Gipper very much and don't want anyone to have to go through what we just did."
Death #31:
Breed: Not specified (male)
Age: 12 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis in hips
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3 weeks
Symptoms: refusal to eat, lethargy
Date of death: March 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner of any side effects; diagnosed renal failure, but did not relate it to Rimadyl
Owner's Remarks: "My twelve year old dog refused to eat in early March. The veterinarian fed him by IV and took blood tests. The tests showed that he had advanced renal failure. The veterinarian mentioned that a week of intensive care at a hospital might help, although the prognosis was poor. I remember my dog being really reluctant to get out of the car to see the veterinarian on that last morning. He was in such low spirits. Based on the renal failure, I made the decision to have him put to sleep, but, since that time, I wonder if I did the right thing. Was it just a Rimadyl reaction that could have been reversed? The treatment cost was not really a factor. He was a dog, but I loved him so much. I keep wondering if I did the right thing."
Norman H. West
Death #30:
Breed: Chow Chow (female, "Arejay")
Age: 10 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 5 days
Symptoms: diarrhea, dark stools, vomiting, lethargy
Date of death: May 22, 1998 (one day after appt. with vet)
Vet informed about side effects: NO; owner told this was a very "safe" drug
Owner's Remarks: "I had seen the advertisement of the drug on TV and had hoped this would help Arejay be more comfortable. She did great for a couple days and then got worse. The vet said to take her off the drug. I took her in a few days later. The vet said she was fine. She died the next night. The vet, I think, doesn't believe that it was Rimadyl that caused her death, but, from all the information that I have read, I am sure that I would still have Arejay today if it weren't for Rimadyl."
xena.rook@attws.com
Death #29:
Breed: Airedale (male, "Skipper")
Age: 15 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 years
Symptoms: lethargy; restlessness; excessive thirst; panting
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: owner not warned
Owner's Remarks: "Did Rimadyl give Skipper an additional two years of being able to walk, or did it blow his kidneys and immune system? I will most likely never know. My personal goal, for Skipper and all of our pets, is to get the Rimadyl folks to put, in plain English, the major warning signs right on the bottle. Just like tobacco. They should be listed on the container. PERIOD. "
Tom_Maher@legis.state.ak.us
Death #28:
Breed: Chow (male, "KiBear")
Age: 10 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 7 months
Symptoms: lethargy; restlessness; excessive thirst; panting
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: told owner, "Honey, nothing in these pills can hurt him"
Owner's Remarks: "Ki was a very healthy dog...well loved and well cared for. I never gave him more than two tablets a day, but there were days I did give him two. I wish I could go back and 'undo' the last seven months, but, knowing that is impossible, I hope this warning about Rimadyl might help others. "
KenJo1214@aol.com
Death #27:
Breed: Miniature Schnauzer (female, "Josie")
Age: 11 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: athritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 4 months
Symptoms: inappetance; lethargy; kidney failure
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner
Owner's Remarks: "In my ignorance, I thought giving her the pill when she was obviously not feeling well would help her feel better -- relieve joint ache, etc. The vet prescribed 1 - 2 pills a day when she first started on it. I gave her one per day; however, I doubled up when she starting showing signs of being ill. Josie had never been sick before."
janee@txalum.com
Additional Notes on Death #27:
October 17, 1998: "My vet gave us the Rimadyl without my asking -- for a little stiffness in rear legs (she had some trouble jumping on the bed!) . I was not told of any side effects or symptoms to look for. Josie began panting a lot and was restless at night... My vet ... said it was probably just a cramp... He was concerned, but could find nothing wrong -- again, did not mention the Rimadyl she was taking. I continued to give her the Rimadyl ... she would just stand at her water bowl and look it it, obviously wanting water, but did not drink. I had to carry her outside; then she would want to immediately come back in. The vet ran complete tests on her and found her to be in total renal failure. He tried to fill her with intravenous fluids all weekend to flush her out. We lost her in 2 days. Rimadyl was the only drug she ever took."
janee@txalum.com
This is an abbreviated report; complete report available upon request to: rimreport@srdogs.com
3/16/99:Addendum to Report of Death #27:
Miniature Schnauzer
The dog's breed and age were omitted from the original "complete report." "Josie" was a Miniature Schnauzer, born 7/9/87. She had never been ill until she developed symptoms of Rimadyl toxicity, which went undiagnosed. She died of total renal failure on 7/12/98 at age 11. A growing number of Miniature Schnauzers are reported to have suffered Rimadyl toxicitiy.
janee@txalum.com
Death #26:
Breed: Golden Retriever (male, "Brandon")
Age: 12 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: athritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 11.5 months
Symptoms: lethargy; panting
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner
Owner's Remarks: "I haven't had the heart to call the vet to find out the final results of the tests they ran, and what really was the cause of his illness. Anyway, I'm still suspicious of Rimadyl, and feel that we weren't fully informed about the side effects and risks involved. "
djoneses@cts.com
Death #25:
Breed: Schipperke (male, "AWOL")
Age: 15.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: athritic front paw
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 8 months
Symptoms: lethargy; inappetance; fullness in abdomen
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: NO
Owner's Remarks: "NO bloodwork was recommended prior to giving my AWOL Rimadyl, and I received no warnings about side effects. In hindsight, I was stupid for not insisting on bloodwork, and I was even MORE stupid to put my healthy, hardy old Schip on Rimadyl for a minor achey paw."
robert217@jps.net
Death #24:
Breed: Labrador (female, "Bados")
Age: 9 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: athritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 21 days
Symptoms: violent vomiting
Date of death: October 1997
Vet informed about side effects: NO
Owner's Remarks: "To this day, too many vets and dog owners are uninformed about the change in labeling for Rimadyl. Unsuspecting dog owners are still being told by uninformed vets that Rimadyl does not have any side effects. Pfizer should be more proactive in effectively informing vets and dog owners about the reactions that apparently were not experienced in the pre-approval clinical studies. If the information is not getting to the vets in the first place, or the vets are not deeming it important, it's not a very effective way to communicate. We view that as a severe breakdown in communications, which, unfortunately, directly affects unsuspecting third parties. How can one weigh the risk/benefit ratio with this drug (or any drug) when all the information is not provided or understood?"
BADOS@AOL.COM
Death #23:
Breed: Chocolate Labrador (male, "George")
Age: 9-10 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: athritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 23 days
Symptoms: inability to walk; inappetance; vomiting
Date of death: October 1997
Vet informed about side effects: NO
Owner's Remarks: "I will not stop trying to alert people of the serious and deadly side effects of this sinister drug. It can strike a dog in a few days or it can strike months later. I will say that people have contacted me and said it has indeed been a miracle for their dogs. For them, I think that is wonderful. But just keep your eyes open and you and your vet be aware of all of the side effects to look for. And, it is wrong for a vet to prescribe this medicine to any dog without doing preliminary testing and blood workups."
LuSwinton@aol.com
This is an abbreviated report; complete report available upon request to: rimreport@srdogs.com
Death #22:
Breed: German Shepherd Dog (male, "NorRhoda's Condor")
Age: 9 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: limp
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 1 - 19 days
Symptoms: mild gastrointestinal symptoms after first day; cleared up after 3 days; then, after 2 weeks exhibited lethargy, excessive urination, dark urine, heavy panting
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner
Owner's Remarks: "What I want to get across is this: Rimadyl CAN cause death in a short time. It doesn't take months. Vets aren't warning people about possible side effects and what to look for. The FDA needs to change the packaging requirements so that the end user gets the insert, rather than the veterinarian. Don't discount symptoms because they aren't severe or sudden. I was caught unaware by relatively mild symptoms that gradually worsened."
howards@po-box1.edwards.af.mil
Death #21:
Breed: Yellow Lab (female, "Jessie")
Age: 11.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 8 months
Symptoms: inappetance; violent hemmorhaging
Date of death: March 1998
Vet informed about side effects: vet said "few side effects, if any"; did not warn owner of nature of side effects
Owner's Remarks: "My veterinarian said this was her first experience with a Rimadyl- related death, but all three pathology reports pointed to Rimadyl being the cause. The frightening part of this was that Jessie's blood work came back absolutely normal, so, even if she had been monitored all along, it would not have shown anything."
CPoulos409@aol.com
Death #20:
Breed: Yellow Lab (female, "Chelsea")
Age: 13.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: mobility problems
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 weeks
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; listlessness; elevated liver and kidney enzymes
Date of death: March 1998
Vet informed about side effects: vet said drug was intended for older dogs; had minimal side effects
Owner's Remarks: "I am writing this to you not as a sad story, but as a topic I believe should be presented. I've heard more people say how wonderful this new drug is, and while Pfizer maintains there are few known side effects, my friend is dead. Vets are telling their clients that there are no side effects, or that the side effects are too minimal to worry about. There ARE side effects, and they need to be addressed. Perhaps Chelsea is only one of the 4% of dogs experiencing known side effects, but she was not one of their 'control' animals -- she was a member of our family who is now deeply missed."
Colleen Gerrior
Death #19:
Breed: Black Lab (female, "Abby")
Age: 5.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: wrist injury
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 weeks during first episode; 2 days during second episode that resulted in death
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; listlessness; elevated liver and kidney enzymes
Date of death: July 14, 1997
Vet informed about side effects: NO; did not suspect Rimadyl in first episode, so prescribed again
Owner's Remarks: "What my vet and I did not realize was that the vomiting and lack of appetite were related to liver dysfunction brought about by a toxic reaction to Rimadyl. She came through that episode and returned to normal as far as we knew. When she reinjured the wrist in early June, I gave her the Rimadyl for two days and the vomiting began again. I thought she had an upset stomach. I had no idea what was happening to her liver. Unbeknownst to me and my vet, Abby was born with a liver that was too small for her body. This is why she had the fatal reaction to Rimadyl. This birth defect (an undersized liver) is common and Rimadyl can be fatal in those animals in which it appears. My vet told me that it is very hard to know if a dog has an undersized liver. Liver function blood panels will show normal levels, as was the case with Abby when she had her annual exam one month before starting on Rimadyl. The only way to be certain of the liver size is to have an ultrasound performed and, unfortunately, that is only done when a problem appears."
LMOORHD@aol.com
Death #18:
Breed: Yellow Lab (male, "Butch")
Age: 5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: limp
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 weeks
Symptoms: depression; vomiting; mucoid diarrhea; inappetance
Date of death: October 1997
Vet informed about side effects: "We would have never given it to him if we had known it would kill him. The side effects we were told to watch for were diarrhea and vomiting. Nothing life threatening."
Owner's Remarks: "My husband and I want to know who is going to take responsibility for our dog's tragic death. We hope that, if enough people tell their stories, something will change dramatically in the way Rimadyl is being prescribed. No other dog or family should ever have to go through what we and a significant number of other people have."
3/9/99 Correction to Report of Death #18:
Improper Warning of Side Effects
The Horn family wrote: "I haven't been to this website in a long time since my family has been unable to talk about the loss of our Butch. We were reading the new format for the reports and found an error in our story. It says, "YES," that we were informed of the side effects of Rimadyl. That is not correct. We would never have given it to him if we had known it would kill him. The side effects we were told to watch for were diarrhea and vomiting. Nothing life threatening. I wish all dog lovers would visit this website." Jim Horn
(Coordinator's Note: We sincerely apologize to the Horn family for the inaccuracy in our original report of Butch's death from Rimadyl.)
Andover 4@aol.com
Death #17:
Breed: St. Bernard (female, "Brandy")
Age: 6.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 weeks
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; listlessness
Date of death: February 16, 1998
Vet informed about side effects: YES; baseline tests not done, however
Owner's Remarks: " As far as we knew, Brandy never had any kind of problem with her health -- only this mobility problem that prompted us to start her on Rimadyl in the first place. She was a perfectly healthy dog. I feel that it is my fault that she has died. If I had not given her those pill, she would be alive today. She trusted me and I let her down. The makers of Rimadyl need to know the devastating side effects that are occurring with this medication. I know that some dogs are doing well on it. But is there a hidden time-bomb waiting to go off? My poor dog died alone in a kennel at the vet's. I pray to God that she did not suffer. She was alone and we had no chance to say goodbye. I would advise anyone considering using this medication to be very cautious and THINK ABOUT IT."
momp@netins.net
Death #16:
Breed: Yellow Lab (female, "Sundae")
Age: 8.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: osteoarthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 months
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; listlessness
Date of death: September 1997
Vet informed about side effects: not clear; initial diagnosis was "jaundice and auto-immune hemolytic anemia"
Owner's Remarks: " September 14 - Sundae put to sleep. Rimadyl was not a compassionate treatment for our dog. Autopsy done. Conclusion, Rimadyl-induced death. Pfizer gave us no assistance in suggesting treatment. Pfizer was given Sundae's autopsy report and had access to Sundae's tissue samples for more study. Pfizer did not take the opportunity to further study why Sundae reacted so fatally to Rimadyl and why we were cheated out of many more years with our best friend."
Robin_Fletcher@hp.com
Death #15:
Breed: Springer Spaniel (female, "Murphy")
Age: 7.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia
When reaction occurred following initial dose: several months
Symptoms: listlessness, then collapse; bloody diarrhea; internal hemmoraghing
Date of death: March -September 1997
Vet informed about side effects: if so, did not warn owner
Owner's Remarks: " Murphy had been a healthy, happy dog, and within 24 hours she was dead. My veterinarian will not confirm that Rimadyl was related to her death. Nor was any other cause ever established. I certainly cannot say for sure it was Rimadyl. But, after hearing other stories, I remain suspicious, and would never put another dog on the drug. Please warn others to be cautious. I would never want another dog to suffer as Murphy did. She was my best friend and companion. I will miss her always."
lseldeen@antioch.sbceo.k12.ca.us
Death #14:
Breed: Samoyed (female, "Cassie")
Age: 12 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: mild arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 months
Symptoms: inappetance; collapse
Date of death: September 1997
Vet informed about side effects: if so, did not warn owner
Owner's Remarks: "We had a necropsy done. The vet who looked at her liver was doing research on Rimadyl-related deaths. He said that her liver was consistent with what he'd seen in Rimadyl-related deaths. Cassie's quality of life was wonderful until her death. I know the Rimadyl helped her...until it killed her."
DeniNation@aol.com
Death #13:
Breed: Lab/Hound Mix (female, "Ginger")
Age: 16 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: mild arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 7 months
Symptoms: whimpering; aimless crawling; dark urine
Date of death: August 1997
Vet informed about side effects: if so, did not warn owner
Owner's Remarks: "I believe Pfizer needs to re-examine their instructions and recommended dosage. I don't believe this is a lifetime drug. If using it for a prolonged period of time, you are playing Roulette with your dog's life. Caution must be used. I lost one dog to Rimadyl but managed to save another." (See Case #19, below.)"
almgtsvcs@cchat.com
Death #12:
Breed: Shelty (male, "Duffy")
Age: 12.5 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 15 days
Symptoms: stumbling; vomiting; inappetance; weakness
Date of death: December 1997
Vet informed about side effects: YES; however, in face of severe dehydration, would not guarantee owner that dog would recover
Owner's Remarks: "I have not been in contact with my vet since I picked up Duffy's ashes; it's painful even to drive past the clinic. So I don't know if he is aware of all this new evidence. I think Pfizer has a long way to go to make it up to people whose beloved pets were 'sacrificed' to their new 'wonder drug.' I don't know how their clinical trials were conducted, but, from what I see, they didn't 'finish their homework' before unleashing this drug onto unsuspecting pet owners."
Jcquiltb@aol.com
Death #11:
Breed: Rottweiler (female)
Age: 7 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: torn anterior cruciate ligament
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 4 months
Symptoms: vomiting; collapse; bloody stool
Date of death: April 1998
Vet informed about side effects: not clear; rehydration attempted, but unsuccessful in reviving dog
Owner's Remarks: "This dog was my baby, my friend and my life. In trying to help her, I believe I loved her to 'death.' I am convinced that this was NSAID toxicity."
Pitbulover@aol.com
Death #10:
Breed: Yellow Lab (female)
Age: 15 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 6 weeks
Symptoms: bloody stool; inappetance; lethargy; vestibular signs
Date of death: Spring 1998
Vet informed about side effects: not clear; diagnosed stroke
Owner's Remarks: "I still believe that the Rimadly sent her on a downward spiral and accelerated her death."
Rmebrat72@aol.com
Death #9:
Breed: Terrier/Poodle (female, "Cricket")
Age: 15 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: neck pain
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 24 hours (3 doses)
Symptoms: vomiting; disorientation; collapse
Date of death: April 1998
Vet informed about side effects: YES; owner told of side effects but not severity
Owner's Remarks: "She had been given 3 doses (1/2 tablet each dose) of Rimadyl, and then she was gone! I have no medical proof that Rimadyl was my dog's killer, since no tests were performed either before or after her death. But Cricket had most of the life-threatening symptoms that are listed. This is not a wonder drug for every dog. Had I known anything about this drug ahead of time, maybe I would have known what to look for sooner and possibly could have saved her life."
toyzunlimited@sprynet.com
Death #8:
Breed: Collie Mix (female, "Samantha")
Age: 13 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 months
Symptoms: vestibular syndrome; seizures
Date of death: Winter 1997- May1998
Vet informed about side effects: not clear
Owner's Remarks: "Is there a way to know for sure whether the Rimadyl was the cause of her sudden devastating illness? If there is, I would like to know, because, for now, I have to live with the knowledge that, if it is indeed the cause, I put those pills in her mouth twice a day. If it was Rimadyl, the result was not pain relief from arthritis, but, instead, repeated seizures that caused my girl to scream and cry as she seizured uncontrollably, often falling into her own vomit. I'll hear those screams as long as I live. I'm going to miss her so."
jlcwirtz@mindspring.com
Death #7:
Breed: American Pointer/English Setter Mix (male, "Deter Dog")
Age: 4 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: hip dysplasia
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 1 month
Symptoms: lethargy; appearance of having gained weight; panting; distress; pale gums
Date of death: June 1997
Vet informed about side effects: not clear; no bloodwork done; vet wanted to perform exploratory surgery to determine cause
Owner's Remarks: "His regular veterinarian (not the one who prescribed Rimadyl) discussed all options with me in great detail and prolonged Deter's life for exactly one month. For this I am very grateful. When I had asked him about Rimadyl and possible reactions to it, he told me it was very possible. He gave me an insert from the Rimadyl package and, sure enough, it stated that it could cause hemorrhaging and severe anemic reactions. Well, on June 25, 1997, my Deter finally was laid to rest. His kidneys were gone and his liver permanently damaged. My poor baby had suffered so much in his last month of life. The weight he seemed to have gained was nothing more than his blood that filled his body cavity. His urine was filled with blood, as was his stool. He panted heavily and constantly. Approximately two days before he died, he quit eating all together. I am very upset that, out of all the large veterinary clinics, none of them even considered the Rimadyl theory."
BArring370@aol.com
Death #6:
Breed: Mix (female)
Age: 13 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: mild arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 1 month
Symptoms: hemorrhage
Date of death: June 1997
Vet informed about side effects: vet attributed symptoms to "old age": no warning of side effects given to owner
Owner's Remarks: "The worst part about it is that her stiffness was not that bad. If I had been warned that a side effect might be DEATH, I would have thought twice, and then twice more before giving her Rimadyl."
mattm@vastnet.net
Death #5:
Breed: American Standard Pit Bull (male, "Crackers")
Age: 14 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3 months
Symptoms: stumbling; loss of balance; seizures; elevated liver enzymes
Date of death: March 1997
Vet informed about side effects: NO; treated dog with anti-seizure medication that made symptoms worse
Owner's Remarks: "The vet performed a total blood analysis and everything looked good except an abnormality of his liver enzymes. Apparently she isn't aware of the problems associated with this drug. Had I found out this information earlier, maybe I could have saved Crackers."
Linda Beaupre
Death #4:
Breed: Dalmatian (male, "Luka")
Age: 6 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: torn ligament
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 5 days
Symptoms: vomiting; inappetance; lethargy; elevated liver & kidney enzymes; seizures
Date of death: February 1998
Vet informed about side effects: told owner Rimadyl involvement was doubtful;
Owner's Remarks: "The autopsy did not reveal too much of anything either; possible pancreatitis. I was told that it was not due to Rimadyl toxicity. I find this hard to believe, after I've done so much research on this medication. Unfortunately all the research was done after it was too late; if only I had done some before I started giving this medication."
jmc.west@worldnet.att.net
Death #3:
Breed: Toy Poodle (female)
Age: senior
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3-4 months
Symptoms: panting, restlessness
Date of death: Spring 1998
Vet informed about side effects: did not inform owner of potential side effects; attempted to "flush" drug from dog's system, but could not
Owner's Remarks: "I gave my little dog Rimadyl for months, not knowing the potential side-effects."
JS, in Michigan
Additional Comments on Death #3:
"We lost our beloved dog 6/8/98. In addition to coping with the aging process, she had to cope with Rimadyl toxicosis. She turned into a zombie after 8 months on the drug. We know now that she was showing intolerance after two weeks, but everything we reported to the vet was shrugged off. He even increased the dose after a few months to 'make her feel better.' Vets believe Pfizer hype and don't believe pet owners. . . When I send messages to magazines, vet newsletters, and columnists, I include a link to the Practitioners' Reporting Network, because PRN is not pet owners with 'anecdotal stories' that too many shrug off; it's vets reporting to the Network about adverse reactions that subsequently led to Pfizer's having to make a label change.
bjsinclair@earthlink.net
Death #2:
Breed: Bichon Frise (female, "Mitzi")
Age: 6 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: arthritis
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 2 weeks (1 week after Rimadyl stopped)
Symptoms: blood in urine; listlessness; inappetance; excessive urination; excessive drinking; vomiting
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: diagnosed bladder infection and prescribed Tribrissen
Owner's Remarks: "One of Pfizer's veterinarian's spoke to me on the telephone, was very sympathetic about our dog's swift decline and subsequent demise but feels that she did not die due to Rimadyl poisoning. I readily admit that none of us (the vets, the rep from Pfizer, my husband or myself) can actually say what happened. All I know is that many of the symptoms were identical to the suffering and decline of the other animals we've read about who were taking Rimadyl. The Pfizer vet said it could have been a combination of going from the Rimadyl to Tribrissen or that a pre-existing condition could have been worsened. "
CHNEARY@aol.com
Death #1:
Breed: Miniature Schnauzer (female)
Age: 13 years
Reason for Rimadyl rx: joint pain
When reaction occurred following initial dose: 3-4 days
Symptoms: seizures; walking in circles; vomiting; depression
Date of death: July 1998
Vet informed about side effects: told owner drug had "virtually no side effects and was very safe in older dogs"
Owner's Remarks: "My vet told me it was just age, and I should expect this. I asked if it could be the Rimadyl and was told, 'Absolutely not.' I was instructed to continue Rimadyl as directed. I really felt it was the drug causing these reactions, however, not only because my Schnauzer was sick, but also because my Shih Tzu, who was on Rimadyl for a shoulder injury, was slowing down, was listless, and had had a change in attitude. "
ReallyMish@aol.com
| A review of important issues related to Rimadyl: (1) Is Pfizer doing enough to inform and educate veterinarians and the public about the administration and possible side effects of Rimadyl? (2) Are the potential side effects too serious for any situations but those in which there seems to be no safer alternative? (3) A new drug often produces side effects that were not evident in the clinical trials that led to its FDA approval. However, is the incidence of deaths and other severe debilitation seemingly attributable to Rimadyl within acceptable FDA limits? (4) Is Pfizer consistent in recognizing when Rimadyl is implicated and in reimbursing for related medical expenses? (5) Is it appropriate for Pfizer to require that "gag" orders (Confidentiality Agreements) be signed in exchange for payment of medical expenses to people whose dogs have taken Rimadyl and had adverse drug experiences? |